Conforto to Reject Qualifying Offer

amazin port

Refugee
This year and the off season will be spent digging around to find and throw out remaining Wilpon shit, with just a slight odor gradually dissipating over next year as the team begins its transition. A strong contender in 3 years, building and finding the many pieces they need throughout the organization as the Cano deal runs it’s course over the next two.

The team needs to be a .500 team without thinking before they win the World Series. Maybe Cano surprises, others overachieve, but the true test of Cohen’s ownership will be the 2023 season. All the talk now is how they get there.
Who's the "remaining Wilpon shit"? I think it's more about establishing why nearly every hitter had a down year in 2021..... if you want to dissect the team, then Lindor and McCann were up there with the under achieving core.
 
thinking about this off-season gives me a headache. normally I'd be excited to come up with dream off-season plans but this year I'm so disgusted(about 2021) and confused about what they should do to fix it, I don't even like thinking about it.

we better hire the right person.
Yeah the idea of bringing back the same team with a price tag of 250 million is disgusting, but that's where we're headed.

I'll be happy if there's a good GM and POBO put in place. I won't be expecting much more this offseason.... Not even sure the team can keep both Stroman and Baez so that's a depressing starting point.
 

bphunke

Rephugee
Administrator
After arbitration raises the Mets will be around $175M. Add Baez, Stroman and Syndergaard it around $250M. Still need a 3B and an OF ( assuming Cano is the DH, McNeil is in LF) Not to mention the bench, bullpen and depth also.

Obviously they are going to have to be smart and creative. Trades are going to be a necessity. Maybe some deferred payments will help. But people have to be prepared for some unpopular and surprising moves.
 

bphunke

Rephugee
Administrator
I guess if Cohen goes up to $280 we can get another legit free agent bat. Or if we go with a garbage rotation.
 

Fargol

Refugee
thinking about this off-season gives me a headache. normally I'd be excited to come up with dream off-season plans but this year I'm so disgusted(about 2021) and confused about what they should do to fix it, I don't even like thinking about it.

we better hire the right person.
I'm cautiously optimistic. If the Wilpons were still around I'd be my usual pessimistic self.
 

Ford Prefect

Refugee
Here's the thing. We should just dismantle the team and rebuild. We won't do it because of reasons like "NY Fans won't stand for it, we have a billionaire owner who wants to spend, we'd be trading players off down years etc..." But it absolutely is the right move to do when you consider that we don't have the assets to trade our way into contention, and there aren't enough players available on FA to buy our way into contention. And it should go without saying that we don't have dick in terms of prospects that are going to be ready to make major contributions next year. This team stinks and to bring it back is only going to result in another lackluster year where we are debating what to do again next year.
 

amazin port

Refugee
Here's the thing. We should just dismantle the team and rebuild. We won't do it because of reasons like "NY Fans won't stand for it, we have a billionaire owner who wants to spend, we'd be trading players off down years etc..." But it absolutely is the right move to do when you consider that we don't have the assets to trade our way into contention, and there aren't enough players available on FA to buy our way into contention. And it should go without saying that we don't have dick in terms of prospects that are going to be ready to make major contributions next year. This team stinks and to bring it back is only going to result in another lackluster year where we are debating what to do again next year.
That's panic mode . There's something intrinsically wrong with the management and hitters approach (even Alonso and Nimmo had sub par OPS years), get that right (and we get more than 300 innings from dGrom, Noah and a sticky ball for Walker and we won't be far off (with some FA additions).
Park 2021 as a year that everything went wrong, from losing 2 GMs to being used to inflate the price for a rapist.
 

Hire

Veteran Refugee
Administrator
Here's the Mets arbitration projections from MLBTR... (obviously some of these guys will be non-tendered)


1633966077285.png
 

Ford Prefect

Refugee
That's panic mode . There's something intrinsically wrong with the management and hitters approach (even Alonso and Nimmo had sub par OPS years), get that right (and we get more than 300 innings from dGrom, Noah and a sticky ball for Walker and we won't be far off (with some FA additions).
Park 2021 as a year that everything went wrong, from losing 2 GMs to being used to inflate the price for a rapist.
It just seems to me as we have years where things either go wrong (2020-21) or we underachieve (2019). There's not a lot of positive things to happen to this core.

I'm totally willing to buy into the idea that Lindor will go back to being an All Star. I'm willing to say McNeil can go back to being a 320 hitter. Dom was really really bad in what was his first full season as a starter. I can't give him the benefit of the doubt. Nimmo is always injured and he shouldn't be counted on for 150 games. Davis isn't good enough to justify us not looking for a 3Bman. Conforto is a damn fool for not accepting the QO. Who knows who will be his replacement.

I just don't think this is a particularly good team. A lot needs to break right for us to maybe win 90 games and maybe make the playoffs. Our track record shows we will be hovering around 500. That's not worth keeping around anymore. What FA/Trades can we make to put us in the SFG, LAD, TBL level of WS contender next year? I don't see them out there.
 
That's panic mode . There's something intrinsically wrong with the management and hitters approach (even Alonso and Nimmo had sub par OPS years), get that right (and we get more than 300 innings from dGrom, Noah and a sticky ball for Walker and we won't be far off (with some FA additions).
Park 2021 as a year that everything went wrong, from losing 2 GMs to being used to inflate the price for a rapist.
Or- This is a 77 win team whose star pitcher just had a partially torn (we think? Maybe?) UCL whom is turning 34 and throws 102 MPH. You wanna count on that guy to pitch a full season?

Yes, there were a lot of underperformers. But is it wise to dump ~275 million into the team we just spent the year watching plus maybe Bryant?

Why is trying to shed the dead weight and start anew such a bad idea? I think it should be seriously explored. Lindor and Alonso are both young enough to build around, maybe Nimmo too but it's sad to say that those are probably the only people keeping. On the entire team. That's not a strong endorsement.
 

amazin port

Refugee
Or- This is a 77 win team whose star pitcher just had a partially torn (we think? Maybe?) UCL whom is turning 34 and throws 102 MPH. You wanna count on that guy to pitch a full season?

Yes, there were a lot of underperformers. But is it wise to dump ~275 million into the team we just spent the year watching plus maybe Bryant?

Why is trying to shed the dead weight and start anew such a bad idea? I think it should be seriously explored. Lindor and Alonso are both young enough to build around, maybe Nimmo too but it's sad to say that those are probably the only people keeping. On the entire team. That's not a strong endorsement.

So you're calling for us to trade everyone other than Lindor and Alonso (and maybe Nimmo)?

Selling low on players you yourself describe as "dead weight" is hardly going to build a successful team. Alonso alone would get a better return than: McNeil, Dom, JD and McCann (even if we ate 1/2 the contract) combined.....our return will be younger prospects with similar or even less projected ceiling than those you've traded, all for the saving of $15m (and a chance we have another Justin Turner scenario).

Problem is that our prospects arent ready (and we dont know yet what we've got or what/if any positions they can play)....so our team will be made up of overpaid second string FA's and maybe AAA like Khalil Lee.

We should bring back the team (maybe trade some, not because we want to, but because there's a trade we like) and stick to the adage that you build a team from within and supplement with FA's in positions of need (Baez and Bryant who hopefully will end up at COF).
 

amazin port

Refugee
baez is way beter than bryant.
There's no batting metric that supports that and if it came down to it, we need a 3B/COF (who we can use flexibly depending on how our prospects develop) more than we do a 2nd baseman.

i like Baez, but that's the reality of the situation we're in.
 

BennySammy

Parents should have arranged for deodorant instead
Moderator
There's no batting metric that supports that and if it came down to it, we need a 3B/COF (who we can use flexibly depending on how our prospects develop) more than we do a 2nd baseman.

i like Baez, but that's the reality of the situation we're in.
Bryant had 3.3 bWAR between Chicago and SF
Baez had 4.6 bWAR between Chicago and NYM


both are good, but Baez is better...his value is significantly higher....also, just watching Baez on the Mets, you can see his value...the guy was doing whatever it took to win...him and Lindor next to each other for the forseeable future would be huge

Bryant does have the better position flexibility to fit within our plans, but Baez is more valuable to us
 

bphunke

Rephugee
Administrator
I don’t think Baez value is significantly higher than Bryant. They’ve averaged the same WAR for their career. Bryant with a higher OPS+. I’ll take either but I think Baez gonna be easier to sign for less money. But Bryant is a great player.
 

Supremedawg

Making Refugees Great Again
Administrator
Or- This is a 77 win team whose star pitcher just had a partially torn (we think? Maybe?) UCL whom is turning 34 and throws 102 MPH. You wanna count on that guy to pitch a full season?

Yes, there were a lot of underperformers. But is it wise to dump ~275 million into the team we just spent the year watching plus maybe Bryant?

Why is trying to shed the dead weight and start anew such a bad idea? I think it should be seriously explored. Lindor and Alonso are both young enough to build around, maybe Nimmo too but it's sad to say that those are probably the only people keeping. On the entire team. That's not a strong endorsement.
Lol! We’re not doing a rebuild.
 

Buddy Lembeck

MR Historian
Super Moderator
Bryant had 3.3 bWAR between Chicago and SF
Baez had 4.6 bWAR between Chicago and NYM


both are good, but Baez is better...his value is significantly higher....also, just watching Baez on the Mets, you can see his value...the guy was doing whatever it took to win...him and Lindor next to each other for the forseeable future would be huge

Bryant does have the better position flexibility to fit within our plans, but Baez is more valuable to us
Not sure how Baez vs Bryant came up as I was advocating Bryant over wasting money on Marte, but your comparison numbers are tighter when Baez moves off of SS
 
Who's the "remaining Wilpon shit"? I think it's more about establishing why nearly every hitter had a down year in 2021..... if you want to dissect the team, then Lindor and McCann were up there with the under achieving core.
Not “who”. The general zeitgeist. A lot more wrong than a few players, the Wilpons took a massive shit and it’s gonna take some time to clear the air. You must know that.
 
guys, try to be a little realistic...if you're honestly thinking we should be able to sign Baez AND Correa, you're being unreasonable

before we even start to talk about FAs, arbitration raises and qualifying offers, the Mets payroll is already going to be around $130 mil with just the guys that currently have contracts counted on the 2022 payroll....then when you add in the arbitration figures the guys will get, you're at or even possibly over $200 mil...that's before we even think about filling out the rest of the 26 man roster

so you think we're going to be able to add another $50-$60 mil a year on top of all that and add Baez and Correa? I guess we'll have to see what the new CBA looks like, but I really don't think it's reasonable to think that the Mets will just have a $300 mil payroll in 2022
Yeah that’s crazy talk. I don't even think we are signing Baez.
 

amazin port

Refugee
Bryant had 3.3 bWAR between Chicago and SF
Baez had 4.6 bWAR between Chicago and NYM


both are good, but Baez is better...his value is significantly higher....also, just watching Baez on the Mets, you can see his value...the guy was doing whatever it took to win...him and Lindor next to each other for the forseeable future would be huge

Bryant does have the better position flexibility to fit within our plans, but Baez is more valuable to us
Hey big boy, I did say BATTING METRIC....wOBA, WRC+, WRAA, OBP and SLG all go to Bryant.

I hope we get both, but if there's only money for one Bryant may be the better fit, especially with McNeil and Guilliorme able to play 2nd
 

BennySammy

Parents should have arranged for deodorant instead
Moderator
Hey big boy, I did say BATTING METRIC....wOBA, WRC+, WRAA, OBP and SLG all go to Bryant.

I hope we get both, but if there's only money for one Bryant may be the better fit, especially with McNeil and Guilliorme able to play 2nd
big boy?

basically, BnO said that Baez is better than Bryant and you're like, "But, batting metrics!", and I showed you why Baez is the better player and you're like, "I said batting metrics!"...what the fuck are you talking about?
 

ChocolateZorro

Uniquely Gendered
id like both of em tbh. and maybe bryant is a better fit cuz we need 3b/OF more than 2b, but baez is also cool and destroys bryant in DNGL%, so i wouldnt be mad with either one
 

Longrod Von Schlongpepper

Little dick energy Opto aka NYRomy the Clown
yeah, I'd like both, but we've already experienced Baez and I'd like him more than Bryant
Exactly. We KNOW Baez can play here. We don't know that about Bryant. While I'd love him and Baez, if I had to choose one it's Javy. This place would become even more unbearable if Baez goes elsewhere and thrives while Bryant signs here and turns into the next Jason Bay.
 

Ford Prefect

Refugee
So you're calling for us to trade everyone other than Lindor and Alonso (and maybe Nimmo)?

Selling low on players you yourself describe as "dead weight" is hardly going to build a successful team. Alonso alone would get a better return than: McNeil, Dom, JD and McCann (even if we ate 1/2 the contract) combined.....our return will be younger prospects with similar or even less projected ceiling than those you've traded, all for the saving of $15m (and a chance we have another Justin Turner scenario).

Problem is that our prospects arent ready (and we dont know yet what we've got or what/if any positions they can play)....so our team will be made up of overpaid second string FA's and maybe AAA like Khalil Lee.

We should bring back the team (maybe trade some, not because we want to, but because there's a trade we like) and stick to the adage that you build a team from within and supplement with FA's in positions of need (Baez and Bryant who hopefully will end up at COF).
The problem that faces the Mets is that they seemingly are never actually able to make a trade with the future in mind. They either have players who are playing well (say Dom in 2020) and then they don't want to trade him at his peak value. OR they have players who are playing crap (say Dom in 2021) and they don't want to trade him at his lowest value.

If anyone believes that there is a WS Championship that this core group of players (even add Baez if you want) and we're just 1 or 2 pieces away, then ok. But if you don't believe in this veteran team's ability to win a WS, then we're going to have a problem in a couple years when no one (most importantly, us) wants these players due to age/$.

Our prospect pool is shallow. The FA pool is shallow. So how are we turning this sub .500 team into a 95+ win team that can legitimately contend for the World Series? I don't see how keeping players who at their peak value aren't good enough to turn us into a true contender (see 2019) is better than selling them when their value is low and having a rebuild plan.
 
Last edited:

Supremedawg

Making Refugees Great Again
Administrator
Exactly. We KNOW Baez can play here. We don't know that about Bryant. While I'd love him and Baez, if I had to choose one it's Javy. This place would become even more unbearable if Baez goes elsewhere and thrives while Bryant signs here and turns into the next Jason Bay.
Bryant has already played and won on the biggest stage in baseball and is doing it again right now. Why wouldn't he be able to play in NYC?
 
Top