Loup/McNeil "Mets lacked clubhouse leader"

Frequency

Registered User
I wish they would deal McNeil. Headcase,trumpy golfer,sub 700 OPS this year.
Dom sucked pretty much equally this year. Also , Dom may be falling out of shape . He's more worth keeping around though IMO.
 

JPSchmack

HOF'er Who Needs To Retire
Administrator
People are overrating the down year aspect with McNeil. He has enough history to be ok. Dom however….
I have a different take. McNeil has sucked trying to be a pull hitting, launch angle power guy. All he does is hit into the shift like a weak-ass Ryan Howard. But he's CAPABLE of being a .330 hitter with 7 HR. He needs to just be THAT GUY.

As for Dom, he had a great year in a short season and then this bad full year. But his 2019 + 2020 = 150 OPS+ and .937 OPS in 396 PAs (basically a full season with a massive break in between).

Trading either is a bad idea. I think we tend to overreact based on how horrible it was, but we're not far off at all. Like, McNeil trying to hit for average, the expected improvement of Lindor next year on the "Beltran Mets arc" trajectory... We just need inning-eating starting pitchers.

We lost 35 one-run games, by far the most in baseball. We lost as many one-run games as the Brewers PLAYED all season.

The difference between the 77-win shit show we got, and the 90-win season we expected was 0.28 runs per game (combined pitching and offense).
 

amazin port

Refugee
I have a different take. McNeil has sucked trying to be a pull hitting, launch angle power guy. All he does is hit into the shift like a weak-ass Ryan Howard. But he's CAPABLE of being a .330 hitter with 7 HR. He needs to just be THAT GUY.
Totally agree, but was it him, or the organisation that want him to be the pull hitter?
 

BennySammy

Parents should have arranged for deodorant instead
Moderator
not to read too much into this, but McNeil trying to say there was no clubhouse leader when he played next to Lindor for almost half the season seems like a direct slight against Lindor...Lindor's whole thing is being a leader in the clubhouse

the whole ratcoon shit aside, it never seemed like Lindor and McNeil vibed with each other...also, Lindor lobby for the Mets to trade for Baez probably rubbed McNeil the wrong way


McNeil is getting traded
 

JPSchmack

HOF'er Who Needs To Retire
Administrator
not to read too much into this, but McNeil trying to say there was no clubhouse leader when he played next to Lindor for almost half the season seems like a direct slight against Lindor...Lindor's whole thing is being a leader in the clubhouse

the whole ratcoon shit aside, it never seemed like Lindor and McNeil vibed with each other...also, Lindor lobby for the Mets to trade for Baez probably rubbed McNeil the wrong way


McNeil is getting traded
I totally can see that.
 

off bernway

Friend of E$
Lindor cracked halfway through but Loup and McNeil are so far from being clubhouse leaders they shouldn't even talk.
 

amazin port

Refugee
not to read too much into this, but McNeil trying to say there was no clubhouse leader when he played next to Lindor for almost half the season seems like a direct slight against Lindor...Lindor's whole thing is being a leader in the clubhouse

the whole ratcoon shit aside, it never seemed like Lindor and McNeil vibed with each other...also, Lindor lobby for the Mets to trade for Baez probably rubbed McNeil the wrong way


McNeil is getting traded
If you join the dots McNeil's comment was that he didnt want the new kid (younger) kid on the block (Lindor) as the leader of the team.
 

joedabum

Registered User
McNeil played nice after but there's no way a dude puts his hands on your neck & you're just good after it.

I still think all of this is just overanalysis though, everyone always wants a reason a team underperforms. Conforto, Lindor, McNeil already struggled with the pressure, I can't imagine a guy being all firey would've made them hit any better.
First I've heard of that. Could you please elaborate? Lindor was trying to choke McNeil???
 

Joey Dirt

Hopes Community College Can Compare
Mcneil is probably on the list of guys that have to go

him and Lindor obviously don’t get along. The fight was the first peak and now these comments are obviously about lindor

my guess is Jeff loves to play 2B and wasn’t thrilled with the PR boys
 
Probably not a place for him on this team anyway if the Mets bring back Baez. He doesn’t produce enough for a corner OF anymore
 

JPSchmack

HOF'er Who Needs To Retire
Administrator
I don't get why guys would complain about there not being a clubhouse leader instead of trying to be that leader
Lindor cracked halfway through but Loup and McNeil are so far from being clubhouse leaders they shouldn't even talk.
Benny's explaination of why McNeil would say that makes total sense...

As for Loup, given what I know about him, he wouldn't realize there was a leader in the room. He's a great fox-hole guy, but not a big picture guy. I'm guessing that he's got a BFF in the bullpen who's probably his keeper. Like, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the First Responder cap was in his locker, and he's like "What the fuck is this?" and May tells him what it is, and the needs to wear it tonight. That kind of thing.

I'm not calling him dumb, because he definitely is not. It's just he's gonna be smart about baseball and his hobbies, and completely oblivious to anything outside of baseball and his hobbies.

He reminds me of Beane's description of Lenny in Moneyball (just not a psychopath/scumbag). Lenny didn't think about failure. Lenny didn't think about pressure. Lenny said "who's this guy?" That's Steve Carlton. "Well, I'm gonna shove it up Steve Carleton's ass." Loup seems to be very similar. His job is to get guys out, he gets guys out. I'm sure he knows who Bryce Harper is, but if you ask him what he knows about Bryce Harper, his response will be that he he crushes pitches in this spot, and you can get him out with these pitches in these locations.
 

Ralph Wiggum

Note to self: Coleslaw
White privilege scared that the brown boys are taking over team.
Last time the brown boys took over we almost went to the world series and then the wheels fell off. It's not a race thing. What we need are bunch of low life degenerates that transcend race and the one smiley face Bible thumper. We already have the Bible thumper in Nimmo now all we need are the degenerates.
 

Bobbyv13

Veteran Refugee
You can be the best player on the team (though he was not that at all this year) but not be the team leader. The idea that Lindor has to be the leader because of his contract is dumb. Lindor is fun and brings a lot of energy, but he doesn’t strike me as a leader. I can’t see him calling someone out for not doing what they are supposed to or putting them in their place when they step out of line. Personally I think McNeil and Loup are right. I don’t think there is anyone in that clubhouse with the on the field credibility AND the personality to call other players out. Seems like everyone there is very non confrontational and Willie Champagne positive.
 

Js855

Refugee
You can be the best player on the team (though he was not that at all this year) but not be the team leader. The idea that Lindor has to be the leader because of his contract is dumb. Lindor is fun and brings a lot of energy, but he doesn’t strike me as a leader. I can’t see him calling someone out for not doing what they are supposed to or putting them in their place when they step out of line. Personally I think McNeil and Loup are right. I don’t think there is anyone in that clubhouse with the on the field credibility AND the personality to call other players out. Seems like everyone there is very non confrontational and Willie Champagne positive.
Right now I'd consider Lindor one of our leaders yes. However for him to be that sole voice in the clubhouse it's going to take a little more time. I do wonder how him going back at the fans was looked at by his teammates. To guys like Conforto I'm sure it was welcomed. Maybe guys like McNeil viewed it a different way.

Regardless though McNeil shouldn't be commenting when he didn't exactly contribute to us winning this year.
 

Bobbyv13

Veteran Refugee
Right now I'd consider Lindor one of our leaders yes. However for him to be that sole voice in the clubhouse it's going to take a little more time. I do wonder how him going back at the fans was looked at by his teammates. To guys like Conforto I'm sure it was welcomed. Maybe guys like McNeil viewed it a different way.

Regardless though McNeil shouldn't be commenting when he didn't exactly contribute to us winning this year.
He‘s a lead by example guy, which is tough to do when you are hitting sub .200.

Forgot to add, it felt like there was a riff in the clubhouse. I actually thought bringing Baez in was going to exacerbate it, interesting to hear that he was actually the bridge and helped the situation. Maybe he is the leader. very few guys I think can walk into a clubhouse and be the new leader. Takes time I think. Maybe a full year in and Baez is that guy?
 
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