Rojas fired (declining his option)

amazin port

Refugee
He’s a perfect minor league manager. The problem is he tried to manage like it was a minor league team when games actually mattered. Nobody cares if the 26th guy is playing twice a week in the majors. Play your best guys the majority of the time. End of story.
Good point, it's as if he wanted to keep the whole roster happy, rather than approach it as 'you hit, you play'.
 

amazin port

Refugee
There isn't much a manager can do to make his players "better" baseball players, but there is a lot he can do to mess up the chemistry, mental state and such of the clubhouse. The Lindor/McNeil thing was meh, ok.. no biggie. But then there were the never-ending slumps and the collapse once Jake went down for good. And then there was the thumbs down debacle. A manager is to "manage". Rojas was clearly not managing that situation. I don't see how he could not have known what the thumbs down meant, as they had been doing it for several weeks. If he didn't know, it proves he was out of touch with the clubhouse. If he did know, it's a damning indictment of him as a manager. So that whole thumbs down situation was the dagger. He was likely already going to be canned, due to the collapse and overall shitty performance of the lineup. But the thumbs down thing showed he didn't have a clue (whether he knew about it or he didn't).
Some good points there, however, the "thumb's down" debacle may have been enacted with Rojas' approval??.....Baez/Lindor get their message across and expressed their feelings, it certainly benefited both of them with .867 and .816 OPS's over the last two months.

I think the organisation went with this 'touchy/feely' chemistry approach, which isnt a bad thing, but different players need different motivations and need different managing styles .....for me, the manager, should manage and if he's responsible and gets released based on success he should be able to bench/construct the line-up as he see's fit.

What motivates the young millionaire's, I dont know, but Blevin appears to think that Melvin has the ability to get the best out of his players ....get the stick out and put it next to the carrot.
 

amazin port

Refugee
Manager: Bob Melvin
Hitting Coach: Carlos Beltran
Pitching Coach: Jeremy Hefner
1st base: Outfield Coach: Cliff Floyd
3rd base Infield coach: Edgardo Alfonzo
boom
The Floyd/Fonzi combo makes me wet.....unfortunately that's because im over 50 and possibly due to prostate.
 
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Roger Dorn

Veteran Refugee
I didn’t want to start a new thread for this, but smh. Sometimes lolmets seems like hyperbole and then you see something like this

A4A43B1F-B06C-41DF-8905-F76A6B794C93.jpeg

what the fucking fuck
 

BennySammy

Parents should have arranged for deodorant instead
Moderator
I didn’t want to start a new thread for this, but smh. Sometimes lolmets seems like hyperbole and then you see something like this

View attachment 22101

what the fucking fuck
Padres and Mets were the biggest disappointments this year, but the fact that the Mets spent over 50% of the season in first place only to end up with less than 80 wins means they should be the poster child of doing things incorrectly in 2021
 

gb2018

Noob
Great news...been waiting a long time for this. Hope they take their time and don't mess up on the next hire and hire the good old boys again.
 

Fargol

Refugee
Interesting article, one with which I pretty much agree with.

I don't agree it might turn out to be a risky move to let Rojas go, but by and large, he's correct in that managers here are blamed reflexively for results.

And he also states that disciplinary managers don't work anymore, which I also agree with, so criticisms of a manager for not being "tough" are unfair. Teams don't want that kind of manager. When the Mets announce their next manager, whomever the guy is who hires him, the new guy will essentially be another Louis Rojas-type albeit with (maybe) more experience at the MLB level.

I'm personally not sad in the slightest that Rojas won't be back, but neither am I relieved. We'll hate the next guy, no matter who he is, just as much if the team doesn't win. I generally don't obsess over what decisions the manager makes, and only care if he's causing negative distractions.

 

BGKAHUNA88

Refugee
Great news...been waiting a long time for this. Hope they take their time and don't mess up on the next hire and hire the good old boys again.
What makes you think it's going to be anybody but another YES man for the front office led by Sandy?
Guys here fantasize about the likes of Theo Epstein and I have to wonder what kind of goofy juice they're drinking. Forget about the cushy job he has. Why would he leave only to be micromanaged by front office / Sandy?
If Theo leaves the MLB offices he's going to be the man in charge of whatever organization he decides to go to. The pecking order will be Owner then Theo. His resume is second to none.
 

Buddy Lembeck

MR Historian
Super Moderator
And he also states that disciplinary managers don't work anymore, which I also agree with, so criticisms of a manager for not being "tough" are unfair. Teams don't want that kind of manager.
We should hire Ted Lasso and when necessary he becomes Led Tasso
 
Not even close to true.

Sandy was never supposed to be acting POBO or gm. He's supposed to be on the business side of the team but had to take on both roles this year because of a drunk and a pervert.
How is it not even close to true?

If Sandy moves over to the business side of the team, that's essentially the same thing as getting rid of him, as he won't be making personnel decisions. Cohen's #1 goal this offseason is to find someone to replace Sandy. Whether Sandy retires or goes over to the "business side of the team", it's the same. He's not going to be involved in the day-to-day operations of the ball club if Cohen has his way the next couple of months and I think Sandy is 100% good with that.
 
Some good points there, however, the "thumb's down" debacle may have been enacted with Rojas' approval??
Unless Rojas is that clueless, how would he not know what the "thumbs down" thing was about? Baseball players use hand signals and make gestures constantly. Rojas would have noticed at some point and asked somebody about it. Again, unless he's completely clueless. Neither option makes him look good as an MLB manager.
 

amazin port

Refugee
Unless Rojas is that clueless, how would he not know what the "thumbs down" thing was about? Baseball players use hand signals and make gestures constantly. Rojas would have noticed at some point and asked somebody about it. Again, unless he's completely clueless. Neither option makes him look good as an MLB manager.
Go back and re-read what I said. I stated that Rojas may well have known exactly what was happening and allowed the players to vent their frustrations (with the fans). It appears the organisation is so focused on 'chemistry' that Rojas was never in full control (I would guess the FO pulled the strings, if not the players), if that's the case he doesnt have a say in what the players do, or alternatively he may of been a party to the thumbs down protest, a protest designed as a method for the players to express their feelings. A theory that getting it off their chest may well improve performance.

FFS - we've had the mysterious Donnie Stevenson and the HR donkey, it appears there are some desperate psychological theories flying around the clubhouse.
 
Go back and re-read what I said. I stated that Rojas may well have known exactly what was happening and allowed the players to vent their frustrations (with the fans). It appears the organisation is so focused on 'chemistry' that Rojas was never in full control (I would guess the FO pulled the strings, if not the players), if that's the case he doesnt have a say in what the players do, or alternatively he may of been a party to the thumbs down protest, a protest designed as a method for the players to express their feelings. A theory that getting it off their chest may well improve performance.

FFS - we've had the mysterious Donnie Stevenson and the HR donkey, it appears there are some desperate psychological theories flying around the clubhouse.
If Rojas had no say in what the players did, then he wasn't really the manager. He was just a robot. He had to have some control, otherwise, he would literally serve no purpose other than to relay orders constantly from the FO. I could see a scenario you described where Rojas knew about it and allowed it to go on for chemistry/motivational purposes, but any decent manager knows you don't do things at the fans' expense to get your team going. The fans are basically the Mets customers. It would be like a restaurant manager allowing his/her staff to mock customers at their restaurant out in the open where everybody can see it. What's more is Baez wasn't cagey about it at all. At least tell your players to keep whatever grievances they have with the fans to themselves. Doing it out on the field was horrible form. Detailing it for the press was stupid. Hence, the press release by Alderson condemning it and the quick next day apologies from Lindor and Baez.
 

amazin port

Refugee
If Rojas had no say in what the players did, then he wasn't really the manager. He was just a robot. He had to have some control, otherwise, he would literally serve no purpose other than to relay orders constantly from the FO. I could see a scenario you described where Rojas knew about it and allowed it to go on for chemistry/motivational purposes, but any decent manager knows you don't do things at the fans' expense to get your team going. The fans are basically the Mets customers. It would be like a restaurant manager allowing his/her staff to mock customers at their restaurant out in the open where everybody can see it. What's more is Baez wasn't cagey about it at all. At least tell your players to keep whatever grievances they have with the fans to themselves. Doing it out on the field was horrible form. Detailing it for the press was stupid. Hence, the press release by Alderson condemning it and the quick next day apologies from Lindor and Baez.
This whole thread is querying what a manager actually does.

If you read between the lines, the 'thumbs down' episode allowed Lindor/Baez to get across their gripes at the cost of an apology. Alderson could never condone such behaviour towards the fans, but didnt really take any punitive action (indicating he wasnt that pissed about it).

It was another stunt, Like Donnie and HR Donkey, anything to shake the malaise the hitting line-up was in.
 
This whole thread is querying what a manager actually does.

If you read between the lines, the 'thumbs down' episode allowed Lindor/Baez to get across their gripes at the cost of an apology. Alderson could never condone such behaviour towards the fans, but didnt really take any punitive action (indicating he wasnt that pissed about it).

It was another stunt, Like Donnie and HR Donkey, anything to shake the malaise the hitting line-up was in.
I wouldn't be shocked if the FO set the lineups, but in terms of the every day management of the team, Rojas has to have some autonomy. Otherwise, what's the point in replacing him? Are you just looking for someone else who can relay orders 24/7 more effectively? Not trying to be a smart ass, but he obviously has some authority and has to carry the respect of the players or else he's just going to be ignored when he tries to relay orders from the FO.

I think Rojas was in over his head and when the lineup slumped, he made it worse by his lack of experience in handling such situations at the MLB level.
 

amazin port

Refugee
I wouldn't be shocked if the FO set the lineups, but in terms of the every day management of the team, Rojas has to have some autonomy. Otherwise, what's the point in replacing him? Are you just looking for someone else who can relay orders 24/7 more effectively? Not trying to be a smart ass, but he obviously has some authority and has to carry the respect of the players or else he's just going to be ignored when he tries to relay orders from the FO.

I think Rojas was in over his head and when the lineup slumped, he made it worse by his lack of experience in handling such situations at the MLB level.
From what's said on here, it appears the manager has limited autonomy over anything. I think it's a given that no manager benches an expensive positional player for anything longer than a day.

You are correct when you say....."what's the point in replacing him", it's probably so that the GM (and the players) dont have to take the responsibility for the failure 🤷‍♂️
 

BGKAHUNA88

Refugee
From what's said on here, it appears the manager has limited autonomy over anything. I think it's a given that no manager benches an expensive positional player for anything longer than a day.

You are correct when you say....."what's the point in replacing him", it's probably so that the GM (and the players) dont have to take the responsibility for the failure 🤷‍♂️
Ding ding ding. Give this man his prize.

From what everyone on here has said Rojas had very little control. He's the easy fall guy. It's hard to imagine anyone worth a damn that would want to come in and make changes/ suggestions to SteveCo is going to work under Sandy.

Another thing is no coaches should be safe. Not Hefner, Not Bones, no one. If any new regime has Sandy's fingerprint on it or if any manager is saddled with old coaches than you know nothing has changed and its the SOM.

SteveCo should get rid of Sandy #1.
Hire a POBO if that's what he wants #2.
The POBO hires a GM #3.
The GM hires a Manager #4.
The Manager hires his coaching staff #5.
 
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